Curating the Curious
Welcome to Curating the Curious, the podcast that celebrates staying curious in life and never settling into a box.
This show is for the creators, the seekers, the explorers, the truth tellers….and the forever students of life.
No matter what age or stage you’re currently at, this is not as good as it gets and it is never too late to begin.
Join me as we explore all of the questions that come with the idea of curiosity. A place where the possibilities are endless and you can always start again.
We expand our lives through curiosity. One of my greatest passions is finding ways to encourage and inspire others to keep pushing, sharing, living, and making things for the world to see.
Curating the Curious
#69- Selling Your Art Without Selling Your Soul with Bec Griffiths
Today's episode is an incredible conversation with Bec Griffiths, where we explore how she mixes her background in corporate marketing with her own personal artistry. Bec shares insights on marketing that feels genuine, true, and highly creative. We also discuss:
• How your curiosity is your superpower in business
• Why marketing and art might not be as different as you think
• Exploring her personal project "Multiplicity" and its themes of duality
• Tips for navigating marketing as an artist without feeling like a sell out
• Focusing on authenticity and truth as your marketing foundation
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Welcome to Curating the Curious, the podcast that celebrates staying curious in life and never settling into a box. This show is for the creators, the seekers, the explorers, the truth tellers and the forever students of life, no matter what age or stage you're currently at. This is not as good as it gets, and it is never too late to begin. Join me as we explore all of the questions that come with the idea of curiosity a place where the possibilities are endless and you can always start again. Today, I'm talking to Beck Griffiths.
Speaker 1:Beck is a bit different than my typical guest. She works full-time in corporate marketing, but she also mentors artists on how to market and sell their art without feeling like they're selling their soul. I was actually lucky enough to have taken her marketing class back when she taught it a few years ago with Yam Palmer. It was called Naked Marketing then, and I can attest personally that she will turn you into a believer. I really am excited about this episode because it's so useful and she is so knowledgeable. Useful and she is so knowledgeable. She's someone who works full time in marketing and is also an artist and has an artist heart. While she knows all of the foundations of true marketing, she also knows how to help you make a personal marketing plan that can actually feel genuine, true and very creative, and aside from all of that, she's just an amazing artist.
Speaker 1:So now, without any further ado, here's Beck. Every time, every time, I've kind of like circled around an interview with someone and we've had to reschedule, or like timing's been off. Whenever we do, I think, oh my gosh, this is the most perfect timing ever. So I have many, many things that I want to ask you about today, but before we discuss all of that, let's start with the question that I ask everyone. But before we discuss all of that, let's start with the question that I ask everyone, and that is tell me the one book or few that you believe everyone should read, and why.
Speaker 2:I read that last night because you pre-sent it to me and then I went oh, that feels really hard, I don't know how to answer it. And then I didn't come up with an answer. So here's my answer on the fly, even though you gave me advance notice. But so here's my answer on the fly, even though you gave me advance notice. And I would say probably not everyone, but I would say women and or people who have had children and have been in the primary caregiver role might be a more appropriate way to say it. The book Night Bitch. Have you read that?
Speaker 1:Yes, that was recommended by Laura Aziz.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes. So she and I spoke about it when I traveled with her, but we did not read it on each other's recommendation, but we have both read it, and we both read it when our kids were at an older stage, because the book is a mother grappling with how to well, it's so interesting, isn't it? A mother grappling with how to well, it's so interesting, isn't it? So it's a mother grappling with parenting and letting go of herself that she knew pre-parenting, which was very connected to being an artist. And the child is, I don't know, maybe less than three years old, young anyway, and both of us read the book when our kids were more like 11, 14. So we were out of living that visceral experience, but it definitely reconnected us to it.
Speaker 1:Oh, me too, and the thing about it was, I remember, thinking God, this would have helped me so much to have read this years ago.
Speaker 2:Well, so that's the debate Laura and I were having. I think it would have been too raw. I don't think I could have read it in those days.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, would I have. I don't know if I would have. That's a good point.
Speaker 2:But in hindsight it takes that premise of how much have we let ourselves, our past selves, be overtaken, I guess, or consumed by a new important thing in life? But viscerally right Like it, does it in a really visceral and pushes the boundaries of that to the extreme. Yes, it's a fascinating book, although I tried to watch the movie and it didn't land and then a friend of mine just said don't bother, so I'm not going to do the movie.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's usually the case, right, it's just not usually the same. Sometimes it is, but it's rare, yeah, yeah, oh, that's a good one. I'm glad that you brought that up and I do agree. And yeah, it's also an interesting thought. Would I have wanted to read it then, because I don't think I even realized what I was experiencing at that time.
Speaker 2:Which is always the case, right, it's with hindsight that we have the most clarity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And what is your favorite quote?
Speaker 2:Okay, so this one I did fail at because I am not a quote rememberer. I do not. I'm not one of those people who carries quotes around, so but I did after you had kind of mentioned to me you were going to ask, I guess my I was attuned to it and I saw one last night that I wouldn't say is my favorite, but I thought was interesting, which talks about people's or it was from have you heard of the Red Hand Files, the Nick Cave newsletter that he sends out?
Speaker 1:Oh no, but Nick Cave yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he sends. I don't actually read it very often, but every time I see a snippet of it or a version of it I go why do I not read this? He's so articulate in the humanity of all of us like it's hard to explain, and he's gone through immense grief and is so grounded in the way that he processes humanity that it's interesting. But anyway, it talks about his reluctance to invalidate the best of us in an attempt to punish the worst. So to me that speaks of. We spend so much time beating ourselves up for the bit that we didn't do right, or the bit that we're not doing well, or the bit that we kind of are embarrassed that we should have done differently. It's such, it's such wasted time to beat ourselves up about the bits we're not doing well or we're not doing perfectly or we're not doing in a way that we feel the most proud of. But what that does, it's not only time waste, it invalidates all the things that are the best in us.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that. Yeah, I thought that was quite good, and for some reason Nick Cave keeps coming up and it might just be that newsletter that you're talking about. Is it on Substack?
Speaker 2:I don't actually know what it's on, but you'd find it. It's called the Red Hand Files.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll look that up. He keeps popping up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the universe is sending him to you for some reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Another thing I wanted to talk about is that something that really draws me to what you do is the fact that you have a full-time job in corporate marketing and you do not do paid art, so all of your creations and personal projects are for you and I like to focus on that. I think that many of my listeners fall into that category and might not see themselves as artists because of that reason, or I'm also kind of fitting into that category now, where I used to do the paid work and I'm not. I don't know. It's really interesting to me and I want to know what moves you to do these projects and this work. Is it coming from this need to create?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think as I grew in my corporate career there was less creativity in my day job, because I'm in marketing and that does have a level of creativity, but as you get more senior it kind of isn't day to day, and so I was craving that and then I toyed with doing paid sessions. So I did do a couple of paid sessions, but the pragmatic I had a pragmatic sensibility about financially I was better off to spend my time getting paid doing something in a corporate role which enabled me to keep doing art a friend of mine jokingly talks about as having a corporate sponsor and that resonates for me right, like that's amazing, yeah, and, and it's not, I wouldn't do it if I didn't get fulfillment and energy out of that career as well.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think that's often the case for artists that they just it, it would sap them and the energy, the amount they gave, the value wouldn't return. But for me, I also find it fulfilling to work in a corporate environment, so to me it made sense that that's where I earn the money and that enables me to create the art. There's frustrations, obviously, like there's times where it would be nice that I didn't have to do a corporate job and I could spend more time on the art, but in the main, for me that balance works. Yeah, that's not to say it's the right balance for other people, but I have to.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I've observed, though, because I'm someone who is motivated by, I think, deadlines, is not quite the right. That kind of gives too much simplicity to it, but maybe I'm trying to get better at being motivated by the process. But I am somewhat motivated by an outcome or a intention that I'm striving for. I am sometimes. I sometimes wish I was doing it for paid work, because it would force me to pick up the camera, yeah, whereas I've got to find an intrinsic motivation outside of needing to make money from it.
Speaker 1:And have you always had this creative side of you? You said that you studied it in school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did photography. So I did art all the way up till the end of school, which for us is year 12. But then I went into a creative advertising degree. So it's, yes, definitely still creative. Probably not art I wouldn't paint it as but definitely still creative. So I've always had a desire to explore creativity. I just think it's represented in different ways, so sometimes it's through art and actually I find running a business creative.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you taught me that when, I took Naked Marketing so yes, but then I also. When you ask that question, I think everyone is creative, aren't they Like?
Speaker 1:we just all express it differently, exactly, and I mean marketing is super creative?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. I just came out of a session with the students that I'm teaching at the moment about marketing. That are all artists and I was talking about that and you would have heard that make you a good artist, or that make you an artist even are the same bits that make you good at marketing. Curiosity, understanding of humanity, um wanting to put um offers into the world, that kind of help people or add to people's lives all of that is the same right things that make you good at marketing. So to me, they're interconnected.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, taking the marketing course with you and Yan did open my eyes to seeing it in a different way, but I did see it in that way already, way, but I did see it in that way already. I did because I kind of enjoyed back in the day, when Instagram was fun, I did enjoy marketing my courses that I was selling. Things have changed, though, but I'm sure we'll get to that later when I ask you more about how you get around all of that stuff, because it's definitely, I think, on a lot of people's minds right now. Yeah, your personal project called Multiplicity this one. That really hit home for me big time, and I loved the video.
Speaker 1:The video of it with the voices of the women who you photographed in the background and beginning with the giggles, but it's so contrasted with the photo and it was just. It really hit me the whole idea of multiple roles, the societal expectations, duality of multiple roles, the societal expectations, duality this is all this stuff that I've been wrestling with, I would say for several years right now. How did you come up with this project and what was your aim in creating it?
Speaker 2:So it was part of an intensive course that I was doing. So I did a 12-month mentorship program with Kirsten Lewis oh, okay, and she's very well known for her documentary work, but this program was very specifically about. It was called the Photographer's Narrative and it was definitely you didn't have to be a documentary photographer and that's not my skill set at all so it was much more about creating narrative stories through photography and as part of that workshop she ran an in-person intensive week-long retreat, for want of a better word. So we went to New Orleans and all of us had to to create, from woe to go, an entire project, including an audio visual, which is not my go-to medium to exhibit at the end of the week.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, I did not know this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really wish she still ran the course, because it is phenomenal. This is amazing, yeah, and so we had, by that point, we had studied with her for a year, so we knew each other and her incredibly well and in the course I had explored some of those things. But you tended to do like an assignment a month as opposed to a long-term body of work. And I think, just in general, I'm drawn to portraits, I'm drawn to women's stories, stories, um, I have my own kind of journey for one of a non-cliched word around. How do I balance the opposing and conflicting ways that I'm expected to turn up in the world? How do I balance being soft and nurturing with being assertive and direct and and and and? There's a lot of imposter syndrome woven into it, which I think is a very shared kind of challenge for lots of us.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and then I have to credit so many people because I don't know about other people, but I'm a very collaborative worker. So, even though the work is fine and I created it, there are so many mentors or discussions on the way that led me there. So I also had a discussion with my friend Rochelle, who's an amazing artist in LA, english born but lives in LA, um, and she helped me refine. But how? What kind of visual representation could be a through line? No, I think I already had thought about the lipstick, but she just helped me refine kind of how to bring that to life in the sessions. And then created the sessions and, because I knew it had to be audio visual, recorded every person that I photographed talking about the multiplicity of what happens in their life and how they have to balance that. Yeah, and then Molly, who, um Raze, who is also a phenomenal artist and has a lot of audio background, helped me edit that into the um, the narrative of the um audio part of that video. I loved that, yeah.
Speaker 1:The whole the audio with the photos. It's just not something that you normally see, and I was. I was floored by it.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:God, I hope everybody listens or watches this.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing't it. That I think and again something we're talking about in marketing because it comes up so often as artists is when? When do we have to sit and be comfortable with putting it out there and accepting that maybe no one or three people are impacted by it and no one else? And I grapple with that because I'm someone who's an extrovert, who feels the need to be validated by external opinions, which I don't think is uncommon, but sometimes, actually, you got to just turn up and make the out anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm not always great at that to be completely transparent, but I try, I'm trying, and I'm not always great at that, to be completely transparent.
Speaker 1:But I'm trying I think about that a lot, you know, just with the whole changes and engagement in social media, You're kind of like, well, am I doing this for the response or am I? Not yeah, I think I'm not, but then I'm disappointed.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, my God, not. Yeah, I think I'm not, but then I'm disappointed. Yes, oh, my god, my friend Laura and I. So, laura, who you mentioned, who's a mutual friend of ours. We, along with another friend, emma, ran a evening. I was in London for a few weeks.
Speaker 2:I saw that yeah, we ran an evening and that's the kind of thing we spoke about. It was just gathering female artists together and talking about those things and they can feel I can't think of the word inconsequential or flippant, but they're not. They're things that we are grappling with, that the world today kind of invites us to take different avenues and and the choice that we make influences not only how we put art in the world, but how we feel about putting art in the world, and there's no answer.
Speaker 2:I know right like there's no right answer?
Speaker 1:no, and it's funny because I left social media for a while and I loved it. I thought I was done and then somehow I kind of returned back. I think it was during the election. I was loving the Kamala stuff and it brought me back.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting, because I think a lot of people switch off around the elections, right, because it just becomes so much.
Speaker 1:Well, they made it so hopeful you know, that I was eating it up. So I'm like okay, I'm back in here, this is making me happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But my whole point in bringing that up was that you know, I've lost so much of my audience or the engagement, and when I do turn up now it's. I know that there's no way I'm ever going to have the engagement that I used to have and I don't care. I'm sort of like, well, whatever, Does that mean it was good or does that mean just a lot of people were watching? But it does help me to not care about the app as much.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting, it helps. Yeah, it helps. That's interesting. I don't know how long did you take off Gosh.
Speaker 1:I mean I could say over the last few years I have dwindled my amount of time spent on there. I only post, you know, a handful of times per year, so when it comes to posting it's been very little. But I left the app completely for three months. Yeah, amazing yeah, and that felt really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know. This is just. This is another thing I actually wanted to ask you how do you, when you're talking to artists about you, know marketing? And I know that you don't focus on social media, which is great.
Speaker 1:But, how do you, how do you even use social media and not let chaos consume you? Or what do you say to people who want to market but they're not feeling mentally healthy when they're on social media, or what have you? Yeah, I mean, they're big questions. So when they're on social media, or what have you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they're big questions. So the first thing I would say is that the course that I teach, or the way that I teach, which has been through a number of courses, is actually social media is somewhat irrelevant. So that's amazing. It's really about and this is good timing, because I just came out of a discussion with students like 20 minutes ago but it's really at the core of marketing is what is it that you're offering, who are you offering it to and how can you articulate it in a way for artists in particular, that you feel energized by and that they will see value in? That's at the core of it. Social media is irrelevant to that. Social media is one tool that you can use to communicate that message that you kind of refine, but that's also a really reductive way to talk about it. The reality is social media is a big part of a lot of life. So it's not I'm not, I'm not blind to that. It is a topic that people want to understand and talk about and work out how to harness. But ultimately it's so downline of the way that I teach, because unless you've got those things sorted, no matter what channel you're using, you're probably not doing particularly effective marketing anyway. But when it comes to social media, it can be a good channel. But I also know lots of artists who are not on there at all and run successful fulfilling businesses. If you do want to use it, I've seen people grapple with it in different ways. So I have a friend who just sees it as a business tool now, isn't seeking to use it as a connective community tool, just can pragmatically separate it into. I go on there and it's a business um task that I do and then I go off.
Speaker 2:I think that, um, I think at its best and I don't know and Instagram is is the social media that I am most familiar with, but so that's the one I tend to talk about. But at its best it's a community builder and a connector and it connects you to people who share similar life desires and that is how I've met quite a lot of friends and that's pretty powerful, that that exists. So I mean you and I probably wouldn't know each other if it were not the Instagram. I spent three days in Rome with Laura. We would not know each other if it wasn't the Instagram. It has brought immense value into my life and as an artist, particularly when I was not able to call myself that, like when I was really just in the early days of trying to figure it out I social media was an amazing community. For me, it was, it was it was.
Speaker 2:I could post work, I could get feedback. I don't mean feedback as in critique, I just mean that you could kind of share, share it, work with each other and interact Now friends would see it.
Speaker 2:Totally and then, but then there was also a part of me. That is okay if that was what it did then and I can't do it anymore Although I'm kind of sad about that, right, and I do notice that when I turn up and I'm able to turn up in a way that feels energising rather than deflating, there is still some great connections on there. But I was just saying to the students today it's very common for me to scroll on social media like in my head, like oh my God, that works amazing, that works amazing, and not press like yeah.
Speaker 2:And so when I am conscious of it, I try and do it because I think it's important to amplify artists' work. But often I'm not conscious of it, and I also find it reassuring because I don't think I'm the only one that behaves in that way. So I think there are people seeing our work that just aren't necessarily validating in that tangible way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know and gosh. There's just so much to it, the algorithm. A lot of people just don't see it Totally I don't see a lot of people's work anymore. I see ads.
Speaker 2:I get lots of weight loss ads and menopause.
Speaker 1:It's all about menopause and weight loss, apparently in my world. Oh, my feed is filled with menopause.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:That's my fault, because I'm very interested in it. Same same, same, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:That's my fault, because I'm very interested in it, same same.
Speaker 1:Going back to, I kind of jumped out of the whole duality, conflicting roles, conflicting expectations. I was interested in, like I would imagine, the contrast between having a corporate marketing career and then, online, you sharing intimate and emotional photographs that you take, and is that something that makes you feel vulnerable in, you know, face-to-face interactions?
Speaker 2:vulnerable in, you know, face-to-face interactions. So I think for a long I can't remember definitively, but I think for a long time I had a private account. I seem to remember that in the early days I very deliberately had a private account and I still connected with people because that was the way Instagram worked in those days. You just kind of, when you followed, often you would get a follow back and all that kind of stuff. So I think that's how I managed it in the early days. Um, I don't think I'm not. I've never been the person to share bits of my life that are really, really raw and are not ready to go out in the world. I think I know of people and I have friends who have found themselves doing that in a way that is very exposing, and I don't think I've I haven't, I haven't done that, like I haven't posted things that I would be really scared of people Feel uneasy yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:I definitely post truth and some level of vulnerability, but nothing that ultimately kind of is really really deeply raw. So I think that helps. And then I probably went fully public on my account when I took a career break from corporate. And then in that year or so break which also was when we started Naked Marketing and I started kind of melding my corporate marketing background with my art background by teaching and mentoring artists Then in that period of time I got more clear B that I wouldn't take a role in a company that was so misaligned with my values that it would be a problem what I was putting out there.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense, right? Yeah, yeah, so it's not. And then you know, life happens and sometimes which luckily didn't happen for me, but I totally understand that actually sometimes you just got to pay the bills and therefore you make your account private, but luckily for me, I have managed to be able to keep those things not conflicting with each other. Having said that, when I'm in the office I'm not saying, hey, follow me on Instagram. If someone happened to find me, they can follow me and it would all be there, but I don't think there's much crossover.
Speaker 1:So no one in your work life ever brings it up or says oh, I saw, no, okay, no, interesting.
Speaker 2:I am. I probably got some friends that I would have mentioned it too, but you just I mean, when you're working in corporate like you're so busy and trying to get the job done and meet deadlines and deliver stuff and and they're not thinking about my tiny little Instagram account.
Speaker 1:The next thing I would like to talk about is your current course that you have with Illuminate Classes, and you are now co-owner. I am Co-owner.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How did this happen.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like Summer and I need an origin story that we can share. But the the the reality is that I had, so I had started teaching, or I was writing my course to teach for Illuminate classes, and then she and I were, separately to that, having discussions about marketing for Illuminate classes and there was just a synergy and not in a like you know, in romantic terms you can have that big bang love at first sight but volatile kind of relationship because it all starts from that energy, whereas the energy was was, I think it was pretty not instant, but it was pretty early that both of us privately started to go. Oh, oh, this partnership could be something, but not in a frenetic way, in a quite considered and, um, yeah, gentle way. I guess it it grew from that. So summer is so amazing and she's done like.
Speaker 2:It blows me away the way that she has built the illuminate classes brand and it's less about the brand and more about knowing what artists need and finding, like these amazing teachers that can um, teach in this really nice, balanced way of they know their topic and they know it well, but they can tailor and personalize and hold an artist not just in the technical knowledge they need to know, but hold their artist self in a way that you walk away feeling you've been seen, understood and learned technical skills along the way, like it's just phenomenal what she set up. But she but also I think she would be comfortable with me saying she was exhausted and and running something like that on your own is intense, and and so there was so much opportunity. There is so much opportunity to take the seed of what she's created and grow from that, and we both are energized by collaboration, and so it just felt like a good fit.
Speaker 1:I saw that and was like, oh well, this is, this is nice.
Speaker 2:And it was it was it kind of came somewhat out of the blue, but sometimes the cool things do right.
Speaker 1:And while you were, actually, she had already asked you to make a course. Yeah, yeah, I was already building a course, yeah, and it's called the art of marketing, which is kind of what we've been talking about the whole time and I love. Was it naked marketing or this one where your tagline is marketing? That doesn't feel gross.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think we might have used a similar one across both. I think we might have used a similar one across both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's specifically for artists. The tools that I teach are not they're agnostic, they're marketing skills, but it's in a language that is tailored for artists, because we do. Artists do approach business differently and there is more of an innate criticality to feeling connected to anything you put out in the world, to feeling connected to anything you put out in the world and that what you're selling you know. I've heard more than one person describe it as a little piece of yourself, versus you creating a tangible widget on a um assembly, factory, assembly line. I'm sure there are people that do that and feel very purpose-driven and connected to what they've created. But I do think art has this extra layer of vulnerability and exposure, and so it's trying. It's translating the skills I've learned in marketing, which I was reflecting on it the other day.
Speaker 2:I started my advertising degree almost 30 years ago, so I've been doing this stuff almost 30 years now, but how? But then it's translating that into practical, tangible ways for an artist to use them, because I mean my corporate job. We've got budgets in the millions, not not in the hundreds of dollars, and so it's how do you take? My friend Jan used to describe it as the Robin Hood. How do you kind of take the really important strategic learnings from that long career and translate it into a language that's helpful to an artist who is working on their own and just wants a way to live sustainably whilst creating, and so that's what the focus is.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of based on a foundation of maintaining integrity. Yeah, and the way that you and Yan did it in the Naked Marketing, which I'm sure is very similar, you feel like, like you said, like you're taking a piece of you and it's coming from you and you feel good about it, rather than just ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, and I think, I think we've been so conditioned and I, I, I, I totally get why so conditioned to marketing equals manipulation and um, preying on vulnerabilities and kind of all the really icky and gross things. Um, but actually, if you take it back to its core and you take it back to what it could be, it's an invitation. I have this offer and I want to invite you to connect with it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I like that. And last but not least, what does living a curious life mean to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a great question and it's something that I have always spoken a lot about is curiosity, and I love that that's kind of your calling as well and that that's what you focus around. How would I answer that? I would say I don't know how to not live a curious life. I think I was definitely the kid that asked a million questions, and now my son is the same, and I'm always wanting to understand at a deeper level how something works or why something happened or how it could be done differently is a big driver for me, and for me, what I always try and get to is what is the core of what? What's at the actual core of what's wanting to be achieved? Because once you understand that, then there's so many different paths you can take. Versus give me the answer. I always want to know, but what was the question? So what does it mean for me?
Speaker 2:I think it means asking a lot of questions. Anyone who's met me knows I ask a lot of questions. I think it's being open to where those questions lead. And I think it's being open to where those questions lead, and I think it means, whenever you're handed something, not accepting it at face value and I don't mean that in a cynical way, although I think it could come across that way sometimes. It means it comes from a desire to want to know more about it so that when you're receiving it, you're receiving it. You're receiving it, understanding the intention of the way it was given.
Speaker 1:Yes, I completely get that. What does it mean for you? Oh boy, I have pages and pages on what it means. I thought of actually. What it means I thought of actually. You know, instead of having an intro, just beginning every episode with each different interpretation of curiosity that I have but for the most part I do I think that it's just about always always looking for why something's happening, how, always kind of inspecting everything, like you said, not taking things at face value and just going, well, no, why is that happening? Why am I doing that? Why do I believe that? Where did that come from? Am I doing that? Why do I believe that? Where did that come from? So, investigating everything and always looking for more kind of like a feeling of hope, like what is to come, curiosity, I just I feel like, without it, you're kind of just settling in and giving up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting and I would say it is a defining part of me for sure, as I'm sure it is for you as well as others. But I know it's exhausting right, I can't do it for every every thing I'm exhausted by myself. Quite often it is I'm exhausted by myself quite often, so yeah it's exhausting like it's a live, I recommend but also take some breaks, like, take some breaks, oh geez. Yeah, just to be, just be in the moment.
Speaker 1:It's fine yeah yeah, that's a good point. And before we leave, where can we find you and what are you offering working on now? Of course, I'm going to have links, oh yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:So Instagram, so it's Beck, underscore, underscore, griffiths on Instagram. That's where I hang out the most. I'm kind of dialing up a bit more about using that as the way that I message people too, because I think that there's lots of problems with Instagram, but there also feels like a through line of art and community that I'm still drawn to. And then Illuminate Classes. So sign up to the Illuminate Classes newsletter. Follow the Illuminate Classes Instagram.
Speaker 2:We were just about to announce I don't know when this comes out, but we're just about to announce spring registration, and I've now met personally met all of the teachers that are part of Illuminate Classes, and I am blown away by what is on offer, and we've got some new teachers coming up that will be launched before the end of the year, as well as lots of other exciting things. So that's where I'm going to be spending most of my time is kind of getting curious about Illuminate classes and how we help artists not just learn the technical skills are important but finding yourself within those technical skills and applying them in your own unique way, similar to how everything I teach about marketing. It's not about formulas, it's about finding your own path within it, and I'm really excited about what's coming up. So yeah, illuminate Class is a good place to find me too.
Speaker 1:I will put those links in the show notes. And I loved talking to you, I loved researching. Oh yeah, that's, yeah, that's about that bit.
Speaker 2:I bet, that's your curiosity bit as well. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, I get very into it and I you know, like you didn't even know, I took your naked marketing. I usually do silent seats and I just watch everything and um, yeah, I'm a watcher, an observer, yeah, I am. It's weird that when I decided to host, I was like, whoa, this is so not me.
Speaker 2:Why? Why the podcast? What was the kind of catalyst?
Speaker 1:I was gosh. This is so many years ago. I was asked to speak on a podcast for when I was selling a self-portrait course. This is like back, I think, in 2019 or maybe 18. And when I talked on it, it was Hello Storyteller. I was like, wow, that was really fun and I didn't expect myself to like that. And then I started listening to podcasts, because before that I couldn't have told you how to even listen to one. And then I got really into it and I started enjoying it so much that something in me just decided I love these so much. Why am I not using this as a creative outlet? And it has become my favorite source of that.
Speaker 1:Even though I haven't been doing it a lot lately, it's something that never dies in my head. It's just that thing that's always there.
Speaker 2:Like when am I going back to?
Speaker 1:it, you know. So I don't know. It just came out of the blue.
Speaker 2:It's a calling it was really lovely to um finally meet you properly and thank you so much for having me. I know same. If you like this podcast, please give my mommy five star rating and an awesome review, because she's the best podcast writer in the world.
